Talking Ramones With Carl Cafarelli

Author Of 'Gabba Gabba Hey: A Conversation With the Ramones'

I can’t resist a good Ramones book.

So, when I got offered a sneak peek at Carl Cafarelli’s new release, Gabba Gabba Hey: A Conversation With The Ramones, I leapt at the chance. Not only is Cafarelli a diehard fan of the band, but he’s also an experienced and excellent music writer.

My expectations were high going in, but Cafarelli easily surpassed them. His personal knowledge of the band’s history made for some deep, career-spanning interviews with Joey, Johnny, Marky and C.J. in celebration of the band’s 20th anniversary—conversations that were the basis for a 1994 Goldmine Magazine cover story.

“The new book provides an opportunity to experience the larger conversation, more material than I could fit into a single magazine article,” Cafarelli told me in a recent email interview.

Those interviews were conducted when the brudders were enjoying founding father status thanks to the rise of ‘90s alternative rock and pop punk. The original Dee Dee/Tommy rhythm section was long gone, but that did little to diminish the band’s signature sound and no-nonsense approach to leather-clad punk rock.

The result is a sort of rock and roll reckoning in four separate conversations that collectively shine a spotlight on Joey and Johnny’s complicated relationship, while celebrating the musical legacy that will forever tie all of them together.

“Quite apart from the nuts and bolts of the Ramones' story, speaking to the members of the group was indeed revelatory,” Cafarelli said.

“If I ever had any notion that the Ramones had lost connection with their own work—and I confess their less-than-compelling live album Loco Live may have prompted such a notion—that silly idea was dispelled by the level of engagement each of them brought to the interviews. They spoke with me at length, and they were clearly passionate about making sure their story was chronicled accurately.”

Carl Cafarelli Interview

Can you tell me how you first discovered the Ramones and what it was about the band that so captured your imagination?

Carl Cafarelli: I've referred to 1977 as my crucible, the year that forged my musical tastes and POV. Upon further review, I'm not sure if that's fair. I was 17, in the spring of my senior year in high school. I'd already been listening to AM Top 40 radio for years, digging everything from Smokey Robinson and the Miracles to Badfinger to Slade, et al. By '77, I'd seen my first concert (KISS) and I was still enjoying a lot of the contemporary rock and pop stuff, particularly Fleetwood Mac, Boston, Sweet, and KISS.

But my truest allegiance was to the music of the '60s, particularly the British Invasion and American reaction: Beatles, Monkees, Animals, Dave Clark Five, Paul Revere and the Raiders. I'd just become a fan of The Kinks—seismic discovery!—as well as The Yardbirds and Buffalo Springfield. I wouldn't have been able to articulate it at the time, but I'm sure I longed for the music of 1977 to be as great as the music of 1965 and '66. I remember taking a magic marker to the underside of a cabinet at school and scrawling Where is Eric Burdon now that we need him?

I had started listening to more FM radio. WOUR-FM in Utica, NY sponsored local distribution of Phonograph Record Magazine. PRM was a national rockin' pop music tabloid, and it blew my mind. 1977. PRM was my introduction to punk rock.

I can't explain my instant fascination with this stuff, this seemingly outrageous noise created by acts I'd neither heard nor heard of. But I was fascinated, absolutely.

I’m not sure if I first heard of the Ramones in the pages of PRM or via Playboy’s negative review of the Ramones' second album, Leave Home. The descriptions and images of the Ramones and their music scared me and thrilled me. I couldn't even imagine what their records might sound like. But I was aching to find out.

What was your relationship as a fan to the Ramones and their music in the '70s vs when you did the interviews for this book?

Carl Cafarelli: When I got to college in August of '77, I carpet-bombed the campus radio station with requests for the bands I'd read about in PRM. WOUR had played the Sex Pistols' "God Save The Queen" that summer. Brockport College's WBSU gave me Television, Blondie, and the Ramones. WBSU's spin of "Blitzkrieg Bop" was the first time I heard the Ramones. I picked up 45s of the Pistols' "God Save The Queen" and the Ramones' "Sheena Is A Punk Rocker." I hadn't heard the latter song before playing that 45 at home over Thanksgiving break. I listened to it over and over for at least twenty minutes. It was the greatest thing I'd ever heard in my young existence. It is no exaggeration when I refer to "Sheena" as the record that changed my life.

My first-ever essay about rock and roll was an emeritus contribution to my high school newspaper in '78, extolling the virtues of punk in general and the Ramones in particular. My first Ramones concert was in the spring of '78, with the Runaways and the Flashcubes. I wound up seeing the Ramones nine times, 1978 to 1990. I bought all of the albums, the first three after the fact, the rest in sequence as they were released. 

That enthusiasm never really dimmed. I kept wishing that the Ramones would break through to the mass popular success I felt they deserved. I wanted the world to celebrate the Ramones like I celebrated the Ramones.

My goal in becoming someone who writes about pop music was to talk about the music I thought people should hear. Power pop. Garage. The Monkees. The Flashcubes. Dozens of indie and lesser-known acts. And certainly the Ramones. I figured as long as my work wore its battered heart on its sleeve, nothing could ever make me want to separate my fandom from my writing. Write what ya know. Write about what you love. Enthusiasm is its own reward, and it fuels better work. Why change that?

Was there any good reason to believe in the ‘70s that the Ramones would be at the peak of their mainstream popularity in the '90s?

Carl Cafarelli: None at all. In the late '70s, even though the Ramones were a cult act, they seemed to be on the way up. "Sheena" charted in Billboard. "Rockaway Beach" made it to #66, I think. There was always this feeling that the Ramones were just one or two lucky breaks away from hitting big. It never quite happened. Looking back, maybe after-the-fact recognition of the Ramones seems like it was inevitable. It didn't seem that way at the time.

How did these interviews come about?

Carl Cafarelli: I freelanced for Goldmine magazine from 1986 to 2006. In 1994, GM editor Jeff Tamarkin was looking for ways to celebrate the magazine's 20th anniversary. '94 was also the Ramones' 20th anniversary, and Jeff accepted my pitch that a cover story about the Ramones oughta be a given. The Ramones' publicist Ida Langsam set up my phone interviews with the then-current members of the group: Joey, Johnny, Marky, and C. J.

What are a few new things you learned about the Ramones after  conducting these interviews? 

Carl Cafarelli: From a facts-and-figures standpoint, I had a pretty good working knowledge of the group's history. I used Jim Bessman's book The Ramones: An American Band as a primary reference resource, but otherwise I knew the Ramones story well enough that the interviews didn't teach me much that I didn't already know.

The only fresh facts I recall were learning that the Ramones had recorded a cover of "Surfin' Safari" for the Japanese release of the Acid Eaters album, and that they'd recorded an earlier version of "Surfin' Safari" with Rodney Bingenheimer and the Honeys, billed as Rodney and the Brunettes. I'm still in need of a personal copy of that one (from a 1984 various-artists LP called All Year Party! Never issued on CD, dammit).

Was there anything specific you learned during the interviews that changed your opinion of the band or any of the band members?

Carl Cafarelli: Before the interviews, I was warned that Johnny could be difficult. He wasn't; he was direct, but charming. He cared about Ramones fans, and he seemed genuinely interested in what I thought of each of the Ramones' albums. He was aghast that I liked "Something To Believe In" (from the 1986 album Animal Boy), but waaaay more good-natured than his reputation would have suggested.

In '94, I don't think the public was fully aware of just how much Joey and Johnny were estranged. I could feel that tension in the interviews. But each of the Ramones still viewed the group as a collective. Brudders. Marky was surprised when I told him how glowingly Joey had spoken of Marky's talent, how he'd compared Marky to Keith Moon and Ginger Baker. Joey was especially determined to credit the contributions of each member of the group, including Johnny. Joey complimented Johnny's guitar playing, gave Johnny proper credit for how much his guitar sound made them THE RAMONES! Right before our conversation ended, Joey stressed to me the importance of talking to Johnny, getting Johnny's specific perspective. These were the guys that supposedly hated each other? Man, they were more of a family than anyone realized, then or now.

Will there ever be another band like the Ramones?

Carl Cafarelli: No. There'll never be another Beatles either. 

What are your five favorite Ramones songs of all time?

Carl Cafarelli: FIVE…?! I hate you. But I knew the job was dangerous when I took it. 

My top two are easy: "Blitzkrieg Bop" and "Sheena Is A Punk Rocker." The latter changed my life, and it's still just an essential everyday track for me. "Blitzkrieg Bop" didn't have that immediate impact, but I now regard it as my favorite.

Third is also easy: from the farewell album ¡Adios Amigos!, the Ramones' version of Tom Waits' "I Don't Want To Grow Up" is as vital as anything on their classic first four albums. Like I say in the book: Growing up is for squares, man. The Ramones weren't gonna do it. We don't have to do it either.

I'll round out my top 5 with "Carbona Not Glue" and...everything else. I'll go with "Babysitter," but it could just as well have been "I Wanna Be Sedated," and several others. I'm a fan.