Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Lucy’s Perspective 

When trying to come up with a song for this week, I initially thought of a few that have been in my queue rotation for the past couple of months.

“Thrown Down” by Fleetwood Mac, “Just Like Heaven” by The Cure, and “Lone Star Lake” by Waxahatchee came to mind. But more than all of those, the song that continues to pop up in my shuffle and one that I hardly ever skip, is “I’m A Believer” by The Monkees.

Honestly, I do not know very many songs by The Monkees since my reference for them as a group comes mainly from initially hearing Lorelai Gilmore talk about them in Gilmore Girls (and a few of their songs I discovered separately). However, this song has been playing in the back of my mind for months.

I’m not sure what inspired this kick, but I am definitely not complaining. The feelings evoked by listening to this song are very whimsical and fun, mimicking how I felt when I heard it for the first time.

I believe the movie Shrek was the first place I heard “I’m A Believer,” although in the film it is covered by Eddie Murphy.

While a somewhat hilarious place to have learned about this track, having the association with the person I was when I watched Shrek for the first time every time I listen to “I’m a Believer” is part of what makes it so special.

From the very beginning of the song, it feels uplifting and exciting in a way, beginning with some sort of organ, I believe, that makes it sound almost like a Beach Boys song, or more beachy rock. As soon as the vocals begin, there is a soft, sweet melody, and the rest of the song unfolds.

My favorite part of “I’m A Believer” is definitely the chorus (probably because it’s 50% of the lyrics), mainly because of the sweet message.

I love the recurring idea that love was always just out of reach, never called, never presented itself, until he saw her. And from there, the rest was history! The whimsical instruments complement the lyrics perfectly, ensuring that the whole song feels just like a fairytale.

Overall I think it is such a sweet, timeless, fun song to put on under any circumstance. I wonder how you feel about it? Or maybe The Monkees as a whole? Do you have other songs by them that you prefer?!

Steve’s Perspective

I love how you evoke nostalgia here without using that word.

Your Shrek association (“the person I was when I watched Shrek for the first time”) and the fact that you first discovered The Monkees through Gilmore Girls—a TV show that had been off the air for a decade when you first got obsessed with it as a tween—really underscore the nostalgic powers of music.

Growing up in the ‘70s, my experience of The Monkees was similar in some ways. The TV show the band was originally created for only aired from 1966 to 1968. Ancient as I am, that still predates even my existence, but the show aired endlessly in local TV reruns when I was a little kid and I absolutely loved it, especially songs such as “Last Train To Clarksville,” “Pleasant Valley Sunday,” and “(I’m Not Your) Steppin’ Stone.”

In a way, the formation of The Monkees can be viewed as a case of instant nostalgia since it was partially based on The Beatles’ earth-shattering success in early ‘60s.

But by the time The Monkees hit the airwaves in 1966 (creating their own kind of Beatlmania), The Fab Four had already moved on from their mop top era to release the groundbreaking albums Rubber Soul (1965) and Revolver (1966). That left a musical void that The Monkees were very successful at filling with a string of chart-topping hits—initially written by professional songwriters and mostly performed by world-class studio musicians—including “I’m A Believer,” penned by Neil Diamond.

Then the four members of The Monkees understandably decided that they wanted to be taken seriously as musicians, transforming from a made up TV act into a real-life band (sort of like Pinocchio becoming a “real boy”). I think some of the music actually written and performed by The Monkees is great, including “Randy Scouse Git” from their album Headquarters (1967). Their 1968 movie Head is psychedelic and surreal.

The Monkees may have started out as a “fake band” (which is a funny concept when you consider how so many pop bands have been meticulously molded and manufactured over the decades), but they soon proved themselves to be a “real band” that really broke up in the early ‘70s before staging reunions starting in the ‘80s.

The Monkees’ music from both eras is still fantastic 60 years later, in my opinion.

On a side note: I appreciate how your generation discovers music.

Growing up when that mostly happened on radio, MTV, and a few movies, I experienced a lot of gatekeeping. On the flipside, music-obsessives like me and my friends put a lot of energy into finding the kinds of albums and artists we wanted to hear, which created it’s own kind of subculture (and led to more great music).

Streaming services and social media definitely have many serious issues that society needs to deal with, but one positive side effect is that music from every era and genre is constantly swirling around. I think that’s an incredible environment for somebody, like you, who truly loves music—especially if it led you to The Monkees!

Thanks for the great song choice, and the trip down memory lane.

Go Ahead, Tell Everybody!

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Steve’s Next Song Choice

“Just Like Heaven” by Dinosaur Jr.

About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Steve’s Perspective 

If I ever had to explain new wave music in a single song, I’d probably go with The English Beat’s “Save It For Later.”

I know it’s not synth/keyboard forward, but it ticks all of the other new wave boxes for me. I also love the crossover with 2-Tone ska. And the jangle is exquisite.

I still clearly remember hearing it for the first time on a friend’s portable cassette player after a Little League baseball game. Something about the opening guitar riff always grabbed my attention, perhaps because of the unique tuning songwriter Dave Wakeling stumbled upon when penning it as a teen. Then the drums lead the band in with a rhythmic flourish that gets echoed at crucial points throughout the track.

The steady backbeat paired with Ranking Roger’s tambourine work give the song a propulsive quality. To me, that’s a key attribute of great new wave—unlike the punk rock that came before it, this is dance music at its core (a point stressed in this song’s music video). To my ears, “We Got The Beat” by The Go-Go’s and “Don’t Change” by INXS are other great examples of danceable new wave hits from the same era.

As is the the case with most timeless pop music, it’s really the chorus that makes “Save It For Later” a perfect song.

The title was originally inspired by a sexual pun, but Wakeling has said that the song is about somebody leaving their teens for their 20s:

Sooner or later
Your legs give way, you hit the ground
Save it for later
Don't run away and let me down
Sooner or later
You'll hit the deck, you'll get found out
Save it for later
Don't run away and let me down, you let me down

I tried to remember what I thought about those lyrics back then, but the main thing that came to mind was how wrong I was about them. For most of the ‘80s I was convinced that it was, “Sooner or later, you’ll hit the deck, your bed for now…” which always struck me as funny. (“Life’s hard, take a nap…right where you are.”)

Another favorite part of this song is the repetition of the “run away, run away…” lyrics after the third chorus, leading into an extended outro. I even love the saxophone solo, which isn’t something I often claim about my favorite guitar pop songs.

One of the most fascinating things about this legendary track is that it almost didn’t get recorded.

According to Wakeling, The English Beat’s bassist David Steele thought it was too “old wave” which is why it only appeared on the original line up’s third and final album Special Beat Service—despite being written before the band even formed.

It’s funny to imagine a song that has stuck with me for most of my life might not exist. I think that’s a great reminder about what makes music in general, and our favorite songs in particular, so precious. When you think about everything that goes into writing a song—inspiration, talent, enormous effort—and the countless reasons why most never see the light of day, it’s pretty incredible that we get to listen at all.

I know I’ve played this one for you many times before, but it will be interesting to read your personal thoughts. I’m curious: Do you have a favorite new wave song?

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Lucy’s Perspective

I feel as though this song has consistently been in the rotation of songs that you have played for me for a pretty long time.

I never knew the title, but recognized the words and melody whenever I heard it. Funny enough, it plays pretty often at my work and since I’m one of the people controlling music sometimes, the name clicked fairly recently.

I love this song not only because of all the reasons you mentioned, but also because of the interesting way that the lead singer enunciates each word (more like, ‘save it for lAter,’ if that makes sense). Something about it just really satisfies my brain whenever it comes on.

Also, I love when random rock or pop songs have saxophone in them. I think it adds something really special and unique to the sound. Although that could be because jazz music is calming to me; I listen to it almost every day to study or clean, so my partiality to the saxophone as a whole might be influencing this opinion. However, in this song, I think the saxophone absolutely works.

You said something interesting about the possibility that a song you know well may have never existed.

This is something I think about so often. Especially with bigger artists like Taylor Swift who sometimes make commentary about what songs almost didn’t make it onto records or what songs were edited a ton/only released years later. Those songs are often some of my favorites.

I don’t know if it is because subconsciously I can sense that they almost didn’t make the cut or what the reason is exactly, but I agree that it is wild to consider that one of your favorite songs, or even just a song you know so well, could very well be in somebody’s voice memos or stuck on a tape that never got released.

I really love this song, it is one of my favorite new wave songs. I think it is so fun that I grew up hearing this song a lot and now I hear it at my job all of the time! Blondie is probably my favorite new wave band, especially “Call Me,” but I will say this song is a pretty close runner up.

What’s Your Favorite New Wave Song?

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Lucy’s Next Song Choice

“I’m A Believer” by The Monkees

About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Lucy’s Perspective 

This was intended to come out a little while ago and may have made more sense in the context of our late December post, but my feelings for this song remain the same.

I first learned about Mazzy Star through mom. There were a few songs she played a lot, including this one. Despite knowing Mazzy Star from a young age, though, it wasn’t until later—maybe toward the end of high school—where I really started to delve into their realm of music.

Of course, I started with classic songs like “Fade Into You” and “Blue Light” (one I remember mom playing quite a few times). “Quiet, The Winter Harbor” is a song that I really discovered this year, despite hearing it in the past.

I found myself putting this song on my “December” playlist and listening to it frequently throughout the month and even into January.

Something about the tranquil vibe and soft singing really helped me to calm my mind, especially as I rolled through finals and the tough feelings that this holiday season, in particular, brought up for me.

I love this song not only because of the emotions it evokes, but also because of the intentional lyricism. Every line holds semblance to this idea of drowning and searching for a lifeline. Hope Sandoval sings:

Save me
'Cause I'm still sinking
You've got a harbor
Close to the shore

I took this fairly literally in the context of the song. She sings time and again about the ways we rely on other people to help us when we are struggling, suffering, etc.—seemingly singing about somebody else, rather than her own inner battles.

I think the combination of beautiful lyricism and calming melodies is what made this the perfect song for me this winter.

It helped me to contextualize how I was feeling in a way that did not feel so ‘in my face’ or blunt.

I wonder if you like Mazzy Star as much as mom and I do? Or if there are any other artists that help you feel calm in moments of high stress.

Remind the algorithm that RTL exists!

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Steve’s Perspective

Much as I love guitar-based pop music, there’s something about piano songs like “Quiet, The Winter Harbor” that really tug at my heartstrings.

And then when the guitar does come in around the two minute mark, it really takes this track to a whole other level. The musical interplay that follows is like a slow dance between two people who have grown apart but still know all the old steps.

That contemplative musical interlude makes the following lines more devastating:

You've got the same smile
You had before
It's just lighter
And what I adore

(I also really love the “You’re like a villain…” lyrics.)

The song that this one most brings to mind for me is Lou Reed’s “Perfect Day” from his second solo album, Transformer.

Reed went solo after disbanding The Velvet Underground, a band that I have to imagine was a big influence on Mazzy Starr. Transformer was co-produced by David Bowie who wrote another one of my favorite piano ballads, “Life On Mars.” I’d personally put Tom Waits’ “Martha,” Nilsson’s “Without You,” and The Beach Boys’ “God Only Knows” in the same category.

You won’t be surprised to hear that I really discovered Mazzy Star (beyond “Fade Into You”) through your mom too. And it’s still a band that I associate with her core musical tastes. I’m thankful to have gotten to know Mazzy Star better over the course of our marriage since I doubt it’s something I would have gravitated to on my own.

And I love that I can hear your mom’s influence echoing throughout your personal listening journey. I know you both love Fleetwood Mac piano songs like “Songbird.” And we’ve all listened to Taylor Swift and Adele piano ballads together more times than any of us could probably count.

Mazzy Star might be moodier than a lot of those other artists, but it seems like a perfect intersection for your evolving musical tastes.

Of the artists I mentioned above, Nilsson is probably the one I can most reliably turn to when feeling anxious.

I know I played his album The Point for you and your sibling when you were little—and I definitely included his song “Coconut” on a few of the playlists I made for you in elementary school—but I’m not sure how much his other music seeped into your consciousness. That’s probably because it was something I listened to on my own.

I really got into him in college, despite the fact that he was stylistically different than all of The Replacements, Pixies, and Fugazi I was listening to at the time. I think it was ultimately the storytelling elements of tracks like “1941” and “Good Old Desk” that I still find so soothing.

And now you’re in college doing something similar with Mazzy Star. That’s an artist you discovered thanks to your mom, but it’s interesting to consider how all four of us use music to center ourselves. I guess that’s one of the reason we’re a “music family,” and part of what makes this series possible. I’m thankful for all of it.

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Steve’s Next Song Choice

“Save It For Later” by The English Beat

About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Steve’s Perspective 

The holidays have always been a strange mix of absolute joy and undefinable sadness for me.

I love December…and not just for the presents. I love the parties, dinners, candy, ridiculous decorations, the tree, the stockings, and even (most) of the holiday songs that start playing on repeat sometime in mid-July these days. I love Elf, The Grinch That Stole Christmas, various versions of A Christmas Carol, and, of course, It’s A Wonderful Life. I’ve even come to appreciate the uncanny creepiness of Polar Express. (And the presents.)

At the same time, a low level despair always creeps in around this time of year. I know there are good reasons why it happens—reduced sunlight leads to drops in serotonin, etc.—but my sadness demands poetry, not science. That’s why I’ve long relied on music to either ease the winter doldrums or steep in them like a hot tub at a ski resort.

Raucous holiday tracks such as “Fairytale of New York” by The Pogues or “Father Christmas” by The Kinks never fail to turn my mood around, while “Jesus Christ” by Big Star or “2000 Miles” by The Pretenders help me indulge in the seasonal sorrow.

This Teenage Fanclub song allows me to do both at the same time.

I’m not sure how they did it, but the opening guitar line is the exact sound and feeling of my annual malaise.

It’s the best Big Star riff that wasn’t written by Chris Bell or Alex Chilton, and the bass line is incredible. Then Gerard Love’s pensive vocals arrive followed by the strings and backing vocals, building intensity before the drums finally bash in a minute later.

There is no clear narrative as far as I can tell (Is it about a break up? Unrequited love? An oblique reference to “September Gurls?”), but the handful of lines capture the coldness, the bleakness, the assassin-inducing sadness that often arrives with winter.

It’s all so emotionally evocative that the final lines make perfect sense in my heart, while my rational mind is left wrestling with more questions than answers:

I’ve had this plan for many years but now I can’t remember.
I wanted to assassinate December
I wanted to assassinate December

The band takes over from there. The false endings never fail to stun. It’s perfect.

I’m honestly not sure what to expect this Christmas.

It will be the first time we aren’t celebrating at our house in Altadena since you were little. And the whole month is already starting to feel like a long reminder of the life we had just before the Eaton Fire destroyed our community and upended our lives.

I know we’ll all get through it together, and I’m hopeful that we’ll be in a better place this time next year. Until then, I guess I’ll just have to lean on songs like “December” a little harder this holiday season.

I want to hear how you’re doing with all of this. Are there certain holiday songs that you can rely to match or escape your mood? Are you still looking forward to the holidays?

Remind the algorithm that RTL exists!

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Lucy’s Perspective

It’s funny because I don’t think I ever experienced true seasonal depression until I got to college.

The month of December always felt slow and melodic, but not inherently sad. That is what I loved most when I listened to this song for the first time. It is beautiful and sweet, but has undertones of something more. Something that does feel sad.

That is exactly the feeling that I now get every year around this time.

This year is especially tough, a lot has changed.

I work until after the sun sets most nights, I’m coming back to LA over break later than usual, and when I do come back I won’t be going to the same home where I’ve always celebrated Christmas. It has been a big year of change for us, and if nothing else I am grateful to know that coming home just to be with you guys for the holidays does feel like enough.

I have been listening to a lot of music lately. Most of it isn’t the kind of holiday music we play at work all day, but I do love “Merry Christmas, Please Don’t Call” by Bleachers and “When We Are Together” by The 1975.

Both of those songs feel melancholic and slow but still capture the chill mood of December.

Although I was definitely bummed to miss out on decorating the tree with you guys this year, my roommates and I got to put up some silly battery-operated lights and buy pine scented candles from Trader Joe’s. We have watched some Christmas movies and tried our best to make it feel like the holidays while we are still off at college.

I am really looking forward to getting to live out the rest of our holiday traditions: the annual tree-trimming party; the yearly holiday singalong; Christmas Eve dinner with close family friends…and Christmas morning when we’re all together!

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Lucy’s Next Song Choice

“Quiet, The Winter Harbor” by Mazzy Star

About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Lucy’s Perspective 

The kind of funky, indie music that Kevin Parker (of Tame Impala) creates has always been pretty fascinating to me.

I’ve been a casual fan of his music since I was probably in middle school when his album Currents featuring songs like “The Less I Know the Better” and “Let It Happen” was really popular. For a long time I just enjoyed the most played songs from that album and others, and didn’t think too deeply about the lyrics at all.

Listening to Tame Impala is just fun and vibey. Typically, you don’t have to spend much time considering the message of the song, but with this track, that changes quite a bit. I first heard “Yes I’m Changing” around the release of Currents, but it wasn’t until this year that I really gave it a second thought.

I was in the car with a couple of friends over the summer when it came on. I was immediately hooked back into it. Something about the whimsical, otherworldly feeling drew me in. I have probably listened to this song once a day for two months straight, and I’m still not sick of it.

Although the song itself seems to be discussing a break up of sorts, I find more resonance in the lyrics through the lens of someone who is going through a major time of growth and personal change.

The track starts with a remark about a sort of new found maturity and how that has manifested into something other than hate for the first time in his life. To me, that opening remark proves that he is growing, finding it easier to accept things which he cannot control. That theme continues into one of my favorite series of lines:

They say people never change, but that’s bullshit, they do
Yes I’m changing, can’t stop it now
And even if I wanted I wouldn’t know how
Another version of myself I think I found…at last

At this point in my life, change is a state of mind that I am constantly moving in and out of, so I find those lyrics very significant. Change is challenging, often surprising, and always inevitable. Parker establishes this and then continues on to express his disinterest in staying a stagnant person. This promotes change, not as something that should be feared, but as a part of life that we should all accept and learn to love.

As the song continues, he begins to sing more about how the person on the receiving end of this song should begin to accept change as well:

The world beyond that door
Is callin’ out for you (time rolls on)
Arise and walk on through

This song has meant a great deal to me in the past couple of months as I continue to navigate school, work, and general adulthood, especially after turning 20.

I have found comfort in the knowledge that although change can be scary, the payoff of accepting that change is much greater than avoiding it.

I wonder what your experience is with Tame Impala and how you perceive this song as somebody who has experienced a lot of change throughout his life. Do you like the song at all? Does it mean something to you? I can’t wait to know!

Remind the algorithm that RTL exists!

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Steve’s Perspective

I listened to this song on repeat while riding the LA Metro to work.

It was a gloomy Monday morning and the cars teemed with commuters. Most had their eyes glued to their phones, but a few—including me—watched the freeway traffic and San Gabriel mountains rush by in a blur outside the rain-streaked windows.

Taking the train to work has been a small silver lining in a year of big changes. Starting a new job within months of losing our family home in the Eaton Fire felt overwhelming, but I tried to just go with it and see where life took me. So far, so good.

I kept this song on repeat until I reached my desk 30 minutes later. It was a perfectly melancholy and hopeful soundtrack to start my week. (And it inspired me to revisit David Bowie’s “Changes” and Fleetwood Mac’s “Landslide” on the ride home.)

The ancient Greek quote, “The only constant is change,” has always resonated with me, and I think these lyrics tap into that wisdom.

As you pointed out, the song is about a break up on the surface—but it also seems to be about the inertia of change for each of the individuals. It’s beautiful that the narrator not only recognizes this within himself, but also encourages his (soon to be ex) partner to embrace the inevitability of change as well:

There is a world out there and it’s calling my name
And it’s calling yours, girl, it’s calling yours too

That’s a pretty profound expression of love, even as their relationship dissolves. I appreciate how that sentiment is echoed throughout the song, turning into something of a repeated mantra in the outro.

And I can relate to the changes you’re experiencing.

Decades have passed, but I still remember that slow dawning sense of becoming the person I was meant to be during college. Strange as it felt at the time, I see more clearly now just how quickly my friends and I were evolving. Time will tell if that’s your experience too, or where life leads you on your own unique path, but it’s nice to see you recognizing it in the moment. That took me a lot longer to figure out.

Thankfully, I’ve discovered that’s a feeling I’ll never completely lose as long as I stay teachable and embrace new ideas, experiences, and perspectives. It takes a little more work and intentionality in midlife, but that kind of effort is its own reward as well.

For example, I’ve finally become a Tame Impala fan because of this great song choice. Thanks for helping me dive into an artist I’ve been meaning to explore more deeply.

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Steve’s Next Song Choice

“December” by Teenage Fanclub

About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Steve’s Perspective 

A Nick Cave song in a Harry Potter movie?

As a longtime fan of Cave’s darkly poetic music, I couldn’t believe they chose to use “O Children” from Abattoir Blues/The Lyre of Orpheus for such a pivotal scene in Deathly Hallows—Part 1. The bleak pairing seemed incongruent at first, but I came to realize it was a perfect choice.

That initial response was mostly my music-addled brain selfishly separating Cave and Harry Potter into distinct buckets. I first fell for his 1988 album Tender Prey—which is still an all time favorite—while Harry Potter is something I specifically associate with you and your sibling. It was the series that taught both of you how to read, books and movies we’ve enjoyed together many times, and a connection we share as a family.

The collision of those worlds created a dissonance that took a while to resolve in my mind. Once it did, I finally appreciated how the song’s tone and rueful lyrics perfectly underscore Harry, Hermione, and Ron’s painful final step into adulthood, while shining a spotlight on the seemingly insurmountable legacy they inherited from previous generations.

That’s something I think about a lot these days.

The sections of the song they chose to highlight in Deathly Hallows is slightly more tame and thematically appropriate compared to lines in the first few verses.

That awkward Harry/Hermione dance scene leans on the song’s outro, featuring lyrics that call The Hogwarts Express to mind over sorrowful music that encapsulates the overall mood of the film:

Hey, little train! Wait for me!
I once was blind but now I see
Have you left a seat for me?
Is that such a stretch of the imagination?

While bleak lyrics from earlier in the song read more like cautionary lamentations:

They are knocking now upon your door
They measure the room, they know the score
They’re mopping up the butcher’s floor
Of your broken little hearts

I remember watching the movie with you during elementary school and wondering how you were experiencing a scene that felt to me like a mash up of vastly different worlds.

It wasn’t until your early high school years that I started hearing “O Children” pop up on your playlists more frequently. I think I took the opportunity to play a few of my other favorite Nick Cave songs for you, including “Mercy Seat” and “Deanna,” but none of those seemed to stick the way “O Children” has to this day.

Which got me wondering about your connection to this song. Is it a track that you specifically enjoy because it’s from one of your favorite childhood film series? Or has your relationship with “O Children” evolved as you have grown up?

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Lucy’s Perspective

This song holds a lot of interesting memories for me.

I mean, the first time I heard it was definitely when I watched Harry Potter and The Deathly Hallows Part 1 with you. I think my first impression of it had a lot to do with the feeling of the movie as a whole; melancholy and dark. The song itself has a pretty dark meaning and in the context of the movie that holds true as well.

I think it was when I was maybe 15 or so that the song got popular on the internet along with all of the Harry Potter movies (again). That’s when a friend and I really started to listen to the song often and delve into the lyrics. Although I know that when Nick Cave originally created the song, his intention likely was not to appeal to teenage Harry Potter fans, I must say whenever I hear the song that is still where my head goes.

Harry Potter, to me, has always been special because of how much we have bonded over it. For most of my life I have been your ‘Harry Potter kid’ and that is something that I think will always bond us, same with this song.

I love the lyrics you highlighted.

They bring such a specific feeling and transport me right back to laying on the couch in our house, watching the movie with you and loving that scene the most every time, despite its awkwardness.

Even though the lyrics about the train are my favorite, I also love when he sings:

I’m hanging in there, don’t you see?
In this process of elimination

We’re happy, Ma, we’re having fun (children)
It’s beyond my wildest expectation (oh, children)

I think this part of the song is special for no reason other than the way it ties back to those original lyrics about the train, as though a response to himself earlier. That feels reminiscent of the movie scene itself, dancing through dark times as a way to remind themselves of the fun they used to have with one another.

To answer your question, though, I do think that even though I have loved this song at different times in my life, it will always be the most special to me because of the memories you and I share around it.

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Lucy’s Next Song Choice

“Yes I’m Changing” by Tame Impala

About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Lucy’s Perspective 

My first instinct when selecting a song for this series is to pick a track that is either a good representation of my current music tastes or a representation of memories.

In this case, though, I am picking a song which applies to both. I think that like a lot of people my age, I heard Jack Johnson’s music for the first time very young. The first song of his that I knew and loved was “Upside Down,” as featured in Curious George.

My earliest memories with his music are all bubbly and positive, revolving around sitting in the living room watching television. For a long time I knew only that one song and eventually “Banana Pancakes,” “Better Together” …and that was about it.

I knew I wanted to write about a Jack Johnson song for this installment of our series, but it took me a while to figure out which one it should be.

Although I have cycled through phases where my favorites were “Home,” “Sitting, Waiting, Wishing,” and “Good People,” “Better Together” is the song that has consistently stayed in rotation.

When I was six and listening to this song the lyrics held no real meaning to me, it was just a series of fun sounds and the cadence of his voice that drew me in. But now, as I continue to listen to and love this song, there is a sweet, hopelessly romantic vibe that draws me in even more:

It's not always easy and
Sometimes life can be deceiving
I'll tell you one thing, it's always better when we're together

There is something beautifully innocent about his words here as they express the feeling of wanting to be with someone through hard moments and knowing that no matter what, life will be easier if you’re with one-another. His chill, sweet energy is exactly what continues to draw me into his music and what has done so throughout my life.

It feels rare for me to find music that I can carry with me throughout the duration of my life, but Jack Johnson is really truly one of those artists.

When I was young his music was exciting and silly, but as I write this—the day before my 20th birthday (eek!)—I still love and appreciate his music just as much. Although I have fond memories of songs I loved in childhood from artists like Raffi, they didn’t stay with me through my life the way Jack Johnson has. The ability for an artist to appeal to children and adults is rare and he does it with ease.

I am curious to know what kind of memories you associate with Jack Johnson or any other artists I loved as a child. Similarly I am interested to know if his music speaks to people your age as well. Whether or not Jack Johnson is somebody I continue to listen to for the rest of my life, I am glad to have grown up with his music, and grateful to be able to love a song for such a long time.

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Steve’s Perspective

I honestly really only know Jack Johnson’s music because of you and a handful of songs that come on the radio sometimes.

I feel like this laidback, beach-y sound—which includes artists like Jason Mraz, John Mayer, and Vance Joy in my mind—got really popular during a period when I wasn’t really keeping up with pop music. But, in general, this is a sound that doesn’t really draw me in (unless it’s punked up, like some Sublime).

Even though I grew up near the beach in SoCal and listened to my fair share of Bob Marley in high school and college, chill folk rock never really caught my ear. For whatever reason (probably because I’m a loud rock guy at heart), if I was listening to somebody strum an acoustic guitar it was Neil Young, Billy Bragg, or Paul Westerberg.

So, I definitely equate Jack Johnson with your childhood—which allows me to enjoy it more than I would on my own.

I think we’ve talked about it in this series before, but I’m constantly fascinated by how important context is when it comes to music. Personal tastes and artistic merit can matter too, of course, but I’ve found that the specific circumstances, scenarios, and connected memories in which we first discover artists and songs matter just as much.

It’s funny that you mentioned Raffi because I actually listened to a few of his songs recently. I was curious to see what they sound like 15 years later and while I agree with you that his music seems to perpetually inhabit a universe specifically designed for young kids, it still brought a smile to may face. Or maybe it was the memories of you singing along from your car booster seat that made me smile.

A few other artists that remind me of when you and your sibling were little are Woody Guthrie, Sarah Lee Guthrie, The Hollow Trees…and, of course, Melissa Green—your favorite artist in early elementary school, until you discovered Taylor Swift.

And as for you turning 20…

I’m typing this after a long weekend of celebrations and posting it the day after you left for college for the third time. I find it impossible to explain, but there’s no feeling quite like watching the two of you grow into such amazing young adults.

And I love that we will always have this “kid’s music” to serve as a soundtrack for the countless fantastic family memories we’ve all made together so far.

Thanks for the great song choice and the trip down memory lane. And speaking of memories connected to your childhood, my next song choice is…

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Steve’s Next Song Choice

“O Children” by Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds

About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Steve’s Perspective 

My high school bandmates and I went crazy for Minneapolis music in the late ‘80s.

The big bands for us were The Replacements, Soul Asylum, and Hüsker Dü. That trio of acts entered our awareness with their early punk albums, but we happily followed along as their distinct sounds evolved to help lay the groundwork for ‘90s alt rock.

Prince and The Revolution were also from Minneapolis, although we didn’t think of that group as connected to the other three. We grew up with the 1984 album/film Purple Rain—like almost everybody else our age—and we fell hard for his 1986 psych/funk/soul album Parade, soundtrack to the film Under The Cherry Moon.

We flipped our wigs for Prince’s 1987 solo debut Sign o’ The Times.

A magnum opus on par with the work of other musical geniuses such as Brian Wilson and Stevie Wonder, at least to our ears, this expansive double album pushed in multiple stylistic directions all at once while somehow holding together as a cohesive masterpiece. I was instantly drawn to tracks such as “Housequake,” “If I Was Your Girlfriend,” “I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man,” and “The Cross.”

My absolute favorite Sign o’ The Times track has always been “Starfish and Coffee.” You probably already knew this because I put it on almost every playlist I created for you and your various elementary school fundraiser events over the years (the name “Lucy” does appear in the lyrics, after all…).

From the opening old school alarm clock and piano to the off-kilter percussion and backward drum loop, I’ve always loved the dreamy, Beatles-y (“the mates?”) feel of the music, as well as the fantastic lyrics and outlandish storyline:

Cynthia wore the prettiest dress
With different color socks
Sometimes I wondered if the mates were in her lunchbox
Me and Lucy opened it when Cynthia wasn't around
Lucy cried, I almost died, you know what we found?

I didn’t realize at the time that the song was based on a true story shared with Prince by co-writer Susannah Melvoin.

“Cynthia would also reveal what she had for breakfast. Consistently it was STARFISH AND PEE PEE. I never understood the combo meal. Furthermore, as a consequence nobody else could. Here it seemed like the deal breaker for most kids. Above all, the kids in our class had no interest in how Cynthia came to get her morning breakfast. I considered it tender and funny, and listened to her tell me anything she wanted to say whether it was firmly planted on earth, or from her planet of tender hearted people who love numbers and draw smiley faces,” Melvoin writes on her merch website.

Prince took many of the specific details from Melvoin’s memories, turning them into a truly timeless track (wisely swapping “pee pee” for “coffee”). Discovering Melvoin’s website and dedicated “Starfish And Coffee” merch made me realize I wasn’t alone in my love for this song. I’m not sure I could pull off a purple “Starfish & Coffee, Maple Syrup & Jam” T-shirt at this point in life, but I might give it a try anyway!

Beyond my own teens, I definitely associate this song with your elementary school years. I wonder if you feel the same? And whether or not you even like this track.

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Lucy’s Perspective

This song holds such specific memories for me.

Listening to it transports me back to the “June Jubilee” school fundraisers, running around the park with snow cones and face paint on. Not only because it often served as the background noise in those memories, but also because of the youthful reminders tied into each and every lyric. Like you pointed out, it does have my name in it, which only adds to the overwhelming nostalgia.

Prince paints a magical picture for his listeners, lined with bright oranges and purples, and emphasized by sweet flavors like butterscotch, tangerine, and jam. There is something about the lyrics to this song that can only be described as silly. Moving from starfish to coffee to ham and back again while the melody moves in rhythm with the lyrics, bouncing up and down and all around creating a mystical experience.

One of my favorite things about Prince’s music is how unique it is.

Typically, in these conversations I try to think of one or two songs that I listen to more regularly to compare and contrast to the song we’re discussing, but in this case I’m coming up blank.

Not because there aren’t songs out there that, like this one, represent nostalgia and true fun, but because they don’t feel comparable to how this song makes me feel. Prince’s most famous songs, such as “Raspberry Beret” and “Kiss,” still make it into my rotation when I am looking for something fun and seemingly lighthearted.

One of the “Starfish and Coffee” lines that I find most impactful is when he sings, “If you set your mind free baby, maybe you’d understand.” It’s a simple phrase that holds some of the greatest significance. The act of telling the listeners that in order to feel the magic of starfish, coffee, maple syrup, and jam (…and ham), the only important step is opening your mind and allowing yourself to experience everything.

It’s fascinating and only builds on the silly, youthful nature of this track.

Although I haven’t kept up much with this track over the years, I was excited to see it pop up in this round of X/Z Song Trader.

It not only reminds me of a very positive time in my life, but also of you and your excitement to share music with me from a young age. Plus, it’s always exciting to hear a song with my name in it.

I think this will definitely make it back into my rotation now, maybe even with new memories attached to it!

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Lucy’s Next Song Choice

“Better Together” by Jack Johnson

About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Lucy’s Perspective 

The Sundays are a band that have kind of always circulated right outside my realm of musical knowledge.

Mainly because they have such a specific sound that is perfect for certain moments not necessarily found in my regular shuffle. Last year, though, some of my best friends started to play them a lot more frequently, even putting one of their most popular songs, “Here’s Where The Story Ends,” on my birthday mixtape.

I heard “Summertime” for the first time last summer, or at least truly gave it the time of day, in the car with those same buddies and I loved it.

It was in my regular rotation a bit throughout the summer and into this past fall, and then it kind of made its way out. That is until about March.

That’s when it started coming up on suggested Spotify playlists and I began listening to it all of the time. It was on every playlist I made, and came on during even the shortest car rides. It feels like such a classic-sounding, singable song that you don’t have to give much thought to it while you listen.

My favorite lyrics are honestly just the chorus of the song.

While a lot of the verses express a yearning desire to find love in some capacity, the chorus displays what the writer imagines to be the ‘ideal’ love. A dreamy, maybe unrealistic, perfect relationship.

And it's you and me in the summertime
We'll be hand in hand down in the park
With a squeeze and a sigh and that twinkle in your eye
And all the sunshine banishes the dark

I think this is a great song and I know that The Sundays are a band mom enjoys, so I am curious to know your history with them. Do you like their music? And most of all—no pressure—do YOU like this song?!

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Steve’s Perspective

Any way you look at it, this is a timeless dream pop song.

You’re right to think your mom was more of a Sundays fan back then, but I remember really liking this single when it was released in 1997. I was already familiar with their early ‘90s hit “Here’s Where The Story Ends,” although my tastes probably skewed a little heavier during the onset of the grunge and pop punk era.

In between those two standout tracks by The Sundays, I fell pretty hard for other female-fronted alternative pop bands like Belly and Ivy. Combine those acts with all the great Brit pop I was consuming at the time by Blur, The Verve, and Supergrass, and this song starts to feel like connective tissue for my later musical tastes.

Talk about a perfect song for cruising the California coastline.

Even now, whenever “Summertime” starts to play it makes me want to take a drive up Pacific Coast Highway toward Malibu while the sun sets over the ocean. Which is funny since The Sundays are an English band singing about being “hand in hand down in the park,” but some songs just have the power to conjure universal feelings.

I’d put this track up there with a few of my other favorite “summer” songs such as “Summertime Blues” by Eddie Cochran, “All Summer Long” by The Beach Boys, “Summer Babe” by Pavement, “Cruel Summer” by Bananarama, “Suddenly Last Summer” by The Motels, and “It Must Be Summer” by Fountains of Wayne, among many others.

Lyrically, I agree that the choruses of “Summertime” are what immediately jump out at you to become an undeniable ear worm.

I investigated the verse lyric after reading your perspective and was surprised to see how detailed they are. Especially these lines leading into the first chorus:

Romantic Piscean seeks angel in disguise
Chinese speaking girlfriend, big brown eyes
Liverpudlian lady, sophisticated male
Hello partner, tell me love can't fail

I thought it might have been written based on newspaper singles ads, but I guess it’s about the band’s friends signing up for dating services.

And then there are these darker lines from the second verse:

Do some people wind up, with the one that they abhor
In a distant hell hole room, third world war
But all I see is films where a colorless despair
Meant angry young men with immaculate hair

All of which adds incredible depth to a song that has always seemed somewhat simple on the surface. Thanks for giving me new perspective on a song I already loved.

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Steve’s Next Song Choice

“Starfish And Coffee” by Prince

About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Steve’s Perspective 

Young bands like The Linda Lindas present a conundrum for me.

On the one hand, their music seems to be at least partially inspired by artists I’ve been listening to for decades like The Muffs, Redd Kross, Green Day and Jawbreaker. But this is first and foremost music made by modern teens for teens, so I’ve been reluctant to be the old guy constantly making the kinds of comparisons listed above.

I realize these are self-imposed rules (music is for everybody, man), but I don’t want to “How do you do, fellow kids?” my way into conversations about the band. Which is fine because I can listen to The Linda Lindas music on my own, but I did miss out on seeing them live over the last few years while everybody was raving about their shows.

That all changed when I took your sister and her friend to see them in downtown LA last month—they pushed closer to the front while I hung back by the bar near the other assembled parents and a few older fans. The high-energy set was fantastic, really showcasing the varied musical styles of the four talented band members.

I really believe that guitar pop is a multi-generational relay race, so I’m always curious to see who’s currently holding the baton.

People started declaring rock music dead long before any of The Linda Lindas were even born, and that has been something of a self-fulfilling prophecy in the 2000s—especially when it comes to mainstream tastes. But I’ve also noticed a young grassroots indie rock movement lately and this is one of the bands setting the pace.

The Linda Lindas knock it out of the park with “Oh!”. The lead track from their 2022 debut Growing Up, it combines the poppy ‘70s punk energy of Ramones and The Go-Go’s with a guitar riff and backing vocals worthy of Dirty Deeds-era AC/DC. (There I go again with the ancient comparisons!)

I also think the self-doubting lyrics are universally relatable to angsty teens as well as insecure people of any age:

Oh, when I say something
I wish I had shut up (Oh!)
And when I try to help
I always screw things up (Oh!)

I know your musical tastes run more in a folk/country direction these days—and that punk was never really a go-to genre for you—but I wonder if The Linda Lindas are on your radar at all? I’d love to know a few of your favorite tracks.

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Lucy’s Perspective

Honestly, I have heard a few songs from The Linda Lindas here and there, but can’t say that I’ve given them an entirely fair shot.

I do, however, love how invested you are in discovering new bands. I think there are a lot of musicians who grew up around the same time as you that have adopted the idea that music is on a downfall and nothing new is good enough to compare to what you all grew up loving.

That mindset has always really bugged me since I’m sure that is how your own parents felt about the music coming out when you were younger, and I have always appreciated how open you are to song recommendations. Even with the songs on this newsletter, you always keep an open mind when it isn’t really your jam.

I really liked this song!

Although you are correct that my music taste has strayed a bit from what it used to be, I still appreciate and listen to more upbeat rock, pop, and indie rock music. I love the way the beat interacts with the rest of this song, as if the lyrics came first and the beat was made to follow along.

I also love the vibe of this band so much. They feel very youthful and fun…basically everything that a pop/rock group should be! I can’t say I am a frequent listener of theirs, though I do hear a couple of tracks pop up in my Spotify from time-to-time. The songs that I know the best are probably “All In My Head” and “Growing Up,” which I think are two of their most popular tracks.

Lately I’ve really been loving listening to music like this while driving up the coast when it's sunny out. I’ve been listening to a lot of different things that fall under this category, but I definitely think that The Linda Lindas will start to make their way into that rotation soon!

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Lucy’s Next Song Choice

“Summertime” by The Sundays

About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Lucy’s Perspective 

I used to have a way different perspective on folk/country music.

Although I grew up loving Taylor Swift—especially her first three, most country albums—I always considered actual country music to be pretty far outside my realm of enjoyment. This perspective stayed with me until I started college when I found myself listening to folk music by Noah Kahan, Bon Iver, Lord Huron, and The Lumineers more often, but there still weren’t any true country artists in the mix.

There is a stereotype revolving around country music that all artists that fall under that category support exactly the kind of ‘America’ I do not, and I think, in part, that is what steered me away from it. The Chicks, though, are a pretty outspoken, progressive band that continue to influence the way that women and country music intertwine, especially in modern America.

This past summer one of my best friends got me a CD player for my birthday and made me a mixed CD that combined my favorite songs with some of her biggest recommendations.

One of her songs was “Wide Open Spaces” by The Chicks. Although I had some previous knowledge of this band through mom’s love for folk-y, country music, I had never given it a true chance beyond a passive listen here and there. Quickly, though, this track found its way into my regular mix, and from there a plethora of classic country music did as well.

“Wide Open Spaces” does a great job of not only keeping an upbeat vibe, but also conveying an important message about going out on your own for the first time. The lyrics express how hard it can be to move forward on your own path, but also how vital personal growth and improvement are:

She traveled this road as a child
Wide eyed and grinning, she never tired
But now she won't be coming back with the rest
If these are life's lessons, she'll take this test

I love those lyrics because they exemplify exactly how it feels to grow up. It can truly feel like every moment is leading up to a big test where you have to prove your maturity and independence.

This song quickly became one of my very favorites and I continued to listen to it for the rest of the summer, bringing it back up to school with me in the fall as well. This greatly expanded my musical tastes, opening my eyes to a world of country music that I didn’t know at all before.

I know mom is way more into folk and country music than you, but I wonder how this music feels to you? Does it hold any nostalgia or importance to you?

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Steve’s Perspective

This song was hard to avoid when it was released in 1998.

I heard it repeatedly back then, but The Chicks (formerly Dixie Chicks) was never a band that I spent much time with. I played drums in a glam/punk band in the late ‘90s and was pretty heavily steeped in a lot of that music, but I was also listening to Wilco, Son Volt, Whiskeytown and Mother Hips with your mom.

Like a lot of my other musical tastes, I originally came to country music through the punk door. Roots rock, which sometimes veered into cow punk territory, was an important part of the SoCal scene thanks to X/The Knitters, The Blasters, Blood on the Saddle and others. That music—combined with classic rock influences from The Byrds, The Rolling Stones and even Linda Ronstadt—led me to Hank Williams, Patsy Cline, Johnny Cash, Roger Miller, Willie Nelson, and Loretta Lynn, among others.

I’ve never really considered myself a true “country fan,” but it’s impossible to deny that genre’s foundational influence on rock music. That said, the kind of arena-oriented “modern country” that exploded in the ‘90s with Garth Brooks and Shania Twain and continues to dominate today has mostly escaped my interest. Right or wrong, I’ve always lumped The Chicks in with all of that music.

The first time I ever really listened to “Wide Open Spaces” was when you chose it for this series.

Storytelling has always been my favorite part of country music and that’s what really jumps out at me about this track. Listening more closely, I understand how relatable these lyrics are for you as a young adult striking out on her own for the first time.

But as your dad? Man, these lines really hit home:

And as her folks drive away, her dad yells, "Check the oil"
Mom stares out the window and says, "I'm leaving my girl"
She said, "It didn't seem like that long ago"
When she stood there and let her own folks know

She needed wide open spaces…

I’ve always thought of this song as The Chicks’ signature track, so I was surprised to learn that it’s a cover. The songwriter, Susan Gibson, originally wrote (and later recorded) it for her alt country band The Groobees.

I admit to feeling a little challenged by this song choice, but reading your perspective really opened my eyes.

I sometimes tease you about liking modern country music (sorry!), but I honestly love watching your musical tastes expand and evolve. Your genuine love for certain artists and songs, and your over all openness to explore new sounds, is really impressive.

I’m so happy that’s something we get to share and discuss, even when our individual tastes aren’t perfectly aligned. Maybe especially when they don’t align because that gives me the chance to grow too.

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Steve’s Next Song Choice

“Oh!” by The Linda Lindas

About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Steve’s Perspective 

Nostalgia can be addictive, especially as you get older.

The inclination to view the past through rose colored glasses is very human and happens to people of any age, but as the decades stack up I’ve found that there’s a more pronounced temptation to pine for the “good old days.” Perhaps it’s a matter of having more experiences behind you than ahead, or maybe it’s a retreat from the realities of aging and into the warm embrace of our time-softened memories.

Nostalgia is definitely a used-and-abused trope in the arts. The term was coined by a Swiss doctor in the late 1600s to describe soldiers separated from their family and friends, but hit the mainstream in the 1800s thanks to Romanticism. It has been used to tug at the heartstrings in most major art forms ever since—including rock music.

I wrote a lot about power pop in our discussion of Todd Rundgren’s “Couldn’t I Just Tell You” last month and this feels like a continuation of that thread. I’ve been saying for a while now that nostalgia is the engine that drives power pop because, in many ways, the genre is about looking back at British Invasion music of the ‘60s (The Beatles!) and trying to recapture those sounds and their cultural relevance.

The Kinks often get left out of strict power pop discussions, but when it comes to nostalgia in ‘60s pop rock—nobody did it better.

The song “Picture Book” is a perfect example. Although it was originally overlooked when The Kinks Are The Village Green Preservation Society was released in 1968, this track has since become a fan favorite, and for good reason. It’s impossible to keep your foot from tapping the moment that bouncy, bass-heavy riff kicks in, the Barbershop-style singing is undeniably catchy, and the drumming is perfect.

So, musically there is a lot to enjoy, but for me the power of this track comes from the playful lyrics and Ray Davies’ self-aware, wink-and-nod lead vocals. As a young California kid who discovered this song and album in the mid-‘80s, I was initially drawn in by the quaint Britishness, but I’ve been coming back for decades because of how the combination of upbeat music and nostalgic lyrics makes me feel:

Picture book, your mama and your papa
And fat old uncle Charlie out cruising with their friends
Picture book, a holiday in August
Outside a bed and breakfast in sunny Southend
Picture book, when you were just a baby
Those days when you were happy, a long time ago

As if the theme wasn’t perfectly obvious, “...a long time ago” pops up throughout and gets repeated in quick succession during the outro to really drive the point home. It might seem like overkill, but I always hear it as the narrator’s internal voice constantly reminding him that the pictures he’s flipping through are distant memories. (There’s another song on the same album with “Picture” in the title. Running theme!)

In that way, it’s always been a great reminder to me that the memories we’re making together now will one day be the distant past as well.

That somehow helps me appreciate them even more as they’re happening. It took me a long time to figure that out and fully embrace it, so I need to remind myself often in order to stay present.

I’m not sure how much time you’ve spent with The Kinks, but I’d love to know your thoughts about this track. And I’d love to hear about your relationship to nostalgia.

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Lucy’s Perspective

Honestly, I haven’t spent a ton of time with The Kinks, but clearly I should because I loved this song!

There is something so perfect about the beat and the way the tune and lyrics align. I especially enjoy that the music is somewhat louder than the words being sung. The sort of faded-sounding singing really adds to the feeling of nostalgia evoked throughout the track. Whether that was purposeful or not, I felt that it really emphasized the theme of the song as a whole.

My relationship with nostalgia is interesting. At this point in my life—where I have more ahead of me than behind—reflecting on my past memories with a melancholic feeling feels almost counter-productive. Why would I rather look backwards than live in the moment or dream about the future?

Recently, though, I have had to sort of rid myself of that mindset. For the first month or so after the Eaton Fire, I tried to avoid nostalgia at all costs. It was only more recently that I was able to reflect on that choice and decide to find a balance between being stuck in the past and ignoring it entirely.

I especially like the ‘scooby-dooby-doo’ part.

I originally thought that was about the cartoon, but apparently it’s a reference to Frank Sinatra’s “Strangers In The Night.” Using that lyric itself represents a form of nostalgia and that’s exactly what makes this song so creative and enjoyable.

Despite being stuck in a cycle where I had either too much or too little nostalgia for a while, it is truly one of my favorite song themes. Some of my favorite artists use nostalgia to fuel their writing, and that is exactly the kind of song I listen to over and over. We see this with Taylor Swift’s “Teardrops On My Guitar,” Noah Kahan’s “Homesick,” and boygenius’ “Me and My Dog.”

I enjoyed “Picture Book” through and through, from the first melodic beat to the final “yeah, yeah, yeah.”

I love how nostalgia is a feeling that you and I both experience through music. I look forward to exploring more of The Kinks’ music with you and understanding your version of nostalgia to a greater level.

Lucy’s Next Song Choice (In Two Weeks)

“Wide Open Spaces” by The Chicks

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About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Lucy’s Perspective 

My whole life I have found comfort and solace in the fact that if nothing else, I would always be able to find the right words to describe any situation.

I have never struggled to get something down on paper, even something too hard to talk about out loud. These last few weeks have taken a lot and I have taken a lot from them, but for the first time in my life I have found myself truly at a loss for words. Even now, a month after losing my childhood home in the Eaton Fire, I don’t truly know what to say. I decided I might have the best luck expressing my feelings through a song I have been thinking about and listening to a lot lately.

I have loved Noah Kahan’s music for a while, getting completely enamored with every beat, line, and innuendo. “The View Between Villages” was one of the first songs that really made me fall in love. I first heard it at a time when all I could relate it to was imagination, but now as I sit 347 miles from home, I find myself stuck in it entirely.

The first lyric in the song that has really captured my attention recently is:

And I’m splitting the road down the middle
For a minute, the world seemed so simple
Feel the rush of blood, I’m seventeen again
I’m not scared of death, I’ve got dreams again
It’s just me and the curve of the valley
And there is meaning on Earth, I am happy

There is something so unreal about splitting your life between two places.

I lived in our Altadena house for about ten years uninterrupted, and when I went away to college it was the place I could always come ‘home’ to. I was constantly stuck between two places, looking forward to new life experiences while falling back onto memories that I value still. But now, as I sit in a library on my college campus, I find myself surrounded by a brand new knowledge that I can only move forward from here. On this ‘split’ road I am looking forward to my adult life in college and beyond, and backwards on something that has faded into a memory.

This song’s true meaning focuses on Kahan leaving his childhood hometown to grow and expand as an artist. It is a love letter to the place he has known best his whole life and how he had to sacrifice that in order to pursue his dreams. That takes on a whole new meaning for me as I listen to the song with this deeper understanding.

I didn’t really grasp the weight of my situation until I came home to visit a couple of weekends ago. Even though you have been up to the burn site a few times, you almost missed the turn onto our street because the neighborhood looks so different.

There’s nothing quite like the feeling of not recognizing your own home any more.

Kahan captures it perfectly with this lyric:

Passed Alger Brook road, I'm over the bridge
A minute from home, but I feel so far from it
The death of my dog, the stretch of my skin
It's all washing over me, I'm angry again

That’s the part of “The View Between Villages” that captures the exact feeling I’ve been desperately trying to put into words.

It's the feeling of driving between what used to be my friends’ homes, pointing to ruins and saying, “I think it's that one,” but not being totally sure. It’s the moment when I stood up on the stone wall in what was once my front yard and was almost able to see what was one of my best friends’ houses four streets down. It’s passing by my elementary school and seeing my handprint on the only standing wall. It's knowing how to get somewhere by heart, even when it’s not standing.

Although I have struggled to find a silver lining or anything positive during this past month, I can safely say that the Altadena community has never been stronger:

The things that I lost here, the people I knew
They got me surrounded for a mile or two

Now, more than ever, I am grateful for everybody I know, every place that I got to love in Altadena, and the community that has only strengthened after the fires.

Our community has seamlessly and without hesitation surrounded one another, understood strength in numbers, and found every possible way to put an arm around those who have been affected. The Altadena community has beautifully supported one another this past month, and I am so grateful to have gotten to love, and to continue to love, this place with my whole heart.

I specifically chose the extended version of “The View Between Villages” because that version of the song contains not only an extra couple of lines, but also a few interviews with people from Kahan’s hometown. The way they describe the place they have known is a beautiful representation of my own love for my hometown, especially right now.

I felt a lot of guilt being away from home this past month, especially when I visited for the weekend. It’s hard to know that the people you care about are facing this kind of pain head-on, while you sit in class, hundreds of miles away.

The ending of the song captures that feeling:

A left at the graveyard, I'm driving past ghosts
Their arms are extended, my eyes start to close
The car's in reverse, I'm gripping the wheel
I'm back between villages, and everything's still

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Steve’s Perspective

I’m so sorry, Lucy.

It’s been impossible for your mom and I to imagine what it feels like for you to lose your childhood home while your away at college, but your powerful and moving words have given me a much better understanding. As heartbreaking as it is for me to read this, I’m in awe of the strength it took to write it.

If there was any way I could turn back the clock for you and your sister, I absolutely would—but I know that’s not how things work. I suppose the best we can do is let ourselves grieve this unfathomable loss for however long it takes, stand by each other as we slowly plot a path forward, and find hope in the future we’ll all build together.

I think that’s what Kahan is ultimately singing about here.

Warts, scars and tragedies aside, he will always have strong connections to Strafford, Vermont. And even though he and everybody he knows has changed and/or moved on in one way or another, it will always be their hometown.

I know in my heart that the same will be true for you and Altadena. No matter how much it changes—whatever it ultimately becomes during this process of recovery and renewal—it will always be where you grew up. Many of the old buildings are gone, but the memories, connections and friendships you made there are not.

Whether you move back here after college or just come to visit every once in a while from wherever life takes you, this community will always welcome you back with wide open arms—starting with your mom, sister and me.

We love you so much, Lucy. We’ll get through this, together—wherever we are.

Steve’s Next Song Choice (In Two Weeks)

“Picture Book” by The Kinks

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About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Steve’s Perspective 

I write a lot about power pop, but I honestly don’t have a ready definition for the genre.

Even after curating several essay collections on the topic and conducting countless interviews with musicians, I’ve found that “you know it when you hear it” is still the best approach for me. I tend to go song-by-song, rather than band-by-band.

If pushed, I point to “September Gurls” by Big Star, “No Matter What” by Badfinger, and “Go All The Way” by Raspberries. Or “My Sharona” by The Knack or “Stacy’s Mom” by Fountains of Wayne, simply because most people have heard them. For more modern examples, I nod to tracks by 2nd Grade, The Speedways or The Whiffs.

“Couldn’t I Just Tell You” is another perfect example of power pop.

For starters, the early Beatles influence is undeniable. This is clearly the work of a gifted songwriter and musician who isn’t afraid to acknowledge his inspirations and influences, all while pushing the form forward.

Musically, the introduction to this track basically set the template for power pop. The perfect, chiming guitar line is quickly energized by thump-and-crack drums before Rundgren’s pleading, raspy voice immediately starts tugging on those heartstrings.

The lovesick longing in the lyrics continues to define the genre 50+ years later:

Couldn't I just tell you the way I feel
I can't keep it bottled up inside
And could we pretend that it's no big deal
And there's really nothing left to hide

To my ears, this track really peaks in the bridge where the amped up Beatlisms build to the moment he finally says “I love you,” followed by a cathartic guitar solo where all those emotions take flight.

I’ve listened to “Couldn’t I Just Tell You” countless times in my life and it never fails to bring a smile to my face—but I can’t remember if I ever specifically played it for you. I’d love to know your thoughts about this song and the genre in general.

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Lucy’s Perspective

Honestly, I’ve heard a lot of power pop through you over the course of my life, especially in the past five or so years.

I have enjoyed a really solid chunk of the songs you have sent me—most of them, at least—but this has got to be one of my favorites. I had never heard it until now, but I loved it. It feels like the most perfect song to listen to exactly where I’m writing this, in a cafe, drinking coffee and looking at the ocean.

I was locked in from the second it started with an almost fairy-tale sounding guitar riff, and then the drums kicked in. Something about that intro really pulled me into the song in a way that I haven’t experienced in a while.

Not only is this song super catchy, but it also has a vibe to it that makes listening fun and exciting.

I agree that it does have a very Beatles sound, especially when he sings the phrase “I love you.” The way his voice goes up at the end reminds me a lot of John Lennon. For that reason, my favorite lines have to be:

Hear me out
Why don't you lend me an ear
You've got no reason to fear
I'll make it perfectly clear
I love you

This song really reminds me of a lot of “And I Love Her” and “In My Life.”

All of those songs are upbeat, but with a very nostalgic and chill feel. The specific similarities I see between this Todd Rundgren song and the Beatles’ music might be minimal but the connotation feels very strong to me.

Something about the simple, straightforwardness of the lyrics really works for this song as a whole. Overall I really liked this choice and can see myself adding it to a playlist to listen in moments just like this one.

Lucy’s Next Song Choice (In Two Weeks)

“The View Between Villages” by Noah Kahan

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About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Lucy’s Perspective 

There are significant number of movies I grew up watching that played an integral role in who I am today.

Some of those include all eight Harry Potter films, Hop, and especially How The Grinch Stole Christmas (1966). I saw this movie for the first time when I was three or four years old and we have watched it again as a family at least once per year since then, typically on Christmas Eve.

Although there are a lot of wonderful aspects of this seasonal classic—the animation, the true-to-book storytelling—the songs always stood out to me the most. The soundtrack for this film is full of short, melodic tracks that amplify the narration including the classic, “You’re A Mean One, Mr. Grinch.”

Albert Hague was the original songwriter for the 1966 movie and is credited with writing the lyrics. Many people have covered it over the years, including Tyler The Creator for the 2018 film The Grinch, but Thurl Ravenscroft sang the original version.

This song is truly just an awesome and funny tie-in to the movie.

The lyrics describe Mr. Grinch in the most foul terms you could ever think up—“You're a bad banana, with a greasy black peel”—but something about the ridiculousness of the insults paired with the upbeat, detective-sounding music really makes me happy.

There is one verse in particular where he is just beaten to the ground by these hilarious criticisms:

You're a vile one, Mr. Grinch
You got termites in your smile
You have all the tender sweetness
Of a seasick crocodile, Mr. Grinch

Given the choice between the two of you, I’d take the seasick crocodile…

Though the song itself holds a lot of resonance for me, I also grew up being obsessed with Cindy Lou Who.

My infatuation with her started with the original animated film. I even dressed up as her for a couple of special celebrations including Halloween and book days in elementary school.

Although I know we have shared this movie together all this time, and especially “You’re A Mean One, Mr. Grinch,” I wonder if you still think it's the best Christmas song? See you on December 24th for our annual viewing!

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Steve’s Perspective

This song is a timeless diss track.

For all its seasonal charm, it’s mostly a collection of offbeat and oddly specific insults. The track opens by simply portraying Mr. Grinch as “mean” and “a heel,” but the bitter vitriol only ramps up from there.

Before we get out of the first verse, Mr. Grinch is described as “cuddly as a cactus” and “charming as an eel,” all delivered in Ravenscroft’s withering, deadpan baritone which adds a sense of gravity to the lyrical tongue lashing.

And the second verse is even more vicious:

You're a monster, Mr. Grinch
Your heart's an empty hole
Your brain is full of spiders, you've got garlic in your soul, Mr. Grinch
I wouldn't touch you with a thirty-nine-and-a-half-foot pole

Not even the goofy charm of the Glee cast (featuring k.d. lang!) can mask the meanness.

“The three words that best describe you are as follows, and I quote, ‘Stink, stank, stunk.’"

That line kills me every time, mostly because of the almost Shakespearean delivery. And I quote? Come on! The composition of that sentence somehow takes three pretty benign words and hones them into one of the sharpest takedowns ever.

Incredibly, it’s followed by this string of stingers:

You're a rotter, Mr. Grinch
You're the king of sinful sots
Your heart's a dead tomato splotched with moldy purple spots, Mr. Grinch
Your soul is an appalling dump heap overflowing with the most disgraceful assortment of deplorable rubbish imaginable…mangled up in tangled up knots

This song is incredibly effective in underscoring Mr. Grinch’s malevolence as he systematically dismantles Christmas in Whoville. And it’s part of the reason that his final transformation feels so impactful, thanks to a simple act of kindness by Cindy Lou Who and the sound of the Whos happily singing. Talk about a Christmas miracle!

It’s an amazing song from a perfect holiday family film that holds many happy memories for me, including your adorable Cindy Lou Who era.

Happy holidays, Lucy! Thanks for creating the X/Z Song Trader series with me this year. My heart grows three sizes every time I get to discuss music with you.

I can’t wait to watch How The Grinch Stole Christmas with you, your sister, and your mom! Love, Dad.

Steve’s Next Song Choice (In Two Weeks)

“Couldn’t I Just Tell You” by Todd Rundgren

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About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Steve’s Perspective 

Let’s talk about “dad rock.”

In the context of this series it’s my perspective on the songs/bands we discuss, but it’s also a broader 2000s music genre. The term was popularized by Pitchfork’s Robert Mitchum in his review of Wilco’s 2007 album Sky Blue Sky:

“An album of unapologetic straightforwardness. Sky Blue Sky nakedly exposes the dad-rock gene Wilco has always carried but courageously attempted to disguise.” 

Dad rock took on a life of its own after that review and has since permeated modern music writing. Although it gained some mainstream legitimacy, it’s still most often used as a slight to describe inoffensive music deeply rooted in influences from the Baby Boomer past. It has been retroactively applied to Neil Young and Tom Petty, and to more modern indie artists such as The Hold Steady, The National and Bon Iver.

That being the case, not every musician whose music is described as “dad rock” embraces the term.

Most notably, Jeff Tweedy from Wilco has had this to say about it:

“I think it's reductive, ageist gatekeeping. I think it's horrible. I don't like it. I've never liked it …It's mean, and I don't know what the point of that is, other than to create some sort of shorthand for other people that they don't need to pay attention to…”

As a fan of many supposed dad rock bands including Wilco, I’m not particularly offended by the term since it mostly seems like a toothless and playful cliche these days (and because, well, I’m a dad who likes rock music)—then again, I don’t have to deal with having “dad rock” automatically applied to every new song I release.

In some ways, I think MJ Lenderman might be the artist who finally obliterates the term “dad rock.”

That’s because the talented multi-instrumentalist/songwriter released one of the best albums of 2024 with Manning Fireworks. It’s a staggering collection full of undeniable “dad rock” signifiers, but delivered with such incredible indie rock aplomb that its genius simply overwhelms any knee-jerk dismissiveness.

In particular, I find it impressive how deeply he seems to truly understand Neil Young’s varied and boundary-pushing musical approach. Young is best known as a singer/songwriter (“Needle and the Damage Done”), country rocker (“Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere”), and “Godfather of Grunge” (“Keep on Rockin’ In the Free World”), and I think all of those influences can be heard on some of Lenderman’s standout tracks, including “Joker Lips.”

The guitar-heavy feel of the song is hypnotic in its ability to conjure syrupy summer days and aimless longing. But the true genius lies in Lenderman’s nonchalant vocal delivery and his tragicomic lyrics about a lovable loser who is barely hanging on:

Please don't laugh, only half of what I said was a joke
Every Catholic knows he could've been pope
Kahlúa shooter, DUI scooter
With a rolling start on the hill
This morning's tryin' to kill me

To my ears, that is in the same league as other top-tier songwriters who aren’t afraid to explore domestic darkness.

In my opinion, “Joker Lips” is up there with Jason Isbell (“Relatively Easy”), Kurt Vile (“Loading Zones”), and, of course, Wilco (“Misunderstood”). The Neil Young albums/eras it most reminds of are 1968’s Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere (“Down By The River”) and 1975’s Tonight’s The Night (“Albuquerque”).

I know you’re an MJ Lenderman fan too, but I’m guessing your frame of reference is a bit different. I’d love to know what you like about his music. What are some of your other favorite songs?

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Lucy’s Perspective

Honestly, it’s somewhat rare that you show me a song in passing and it sticks with me in such a major way.

I enjoy the music you share with me, but it typically takes me a couple of listens before I really get into anything. With MJ Lenderman it was instant. The first song you played for me, “Right Back To It” with Waxahatchee, is still my favorite.

I think what I appreciate most about MJ Lenderman’s music is just the general laid back vibe of every single song. It feels like laying down in the grass and watching the clouds move in the sky. It’s a relaxing listening experience that makes room for the complex lyrics that he sings throughout.

In “Joker Lips,” Lenderman uses the chill sound of his music as a way to move each lyric forward.

I love the lines you pointed out in your perspective, but for me it’s the simplicity of these lyrics:

Yeah, you know I love my TV
But all I really wanna see is see you need me

To me, that encapsulates the personal feelings that go into every word he writes. With all of the complexity of the rest of the song, especially in the lines you highlighted, these simple lyrics pack quite a punch.

This stanza seems to say that no matter how much media he consumes, the only thing he ever wants to watch is this ‘you’ character wanting and needing him back. That kind of raw, real lyric writing is what makes his music so gut-wrenchingly beautiful.

MJ Lenderman has been in my music rotation since you introduced me to him in September.

And my infatuation has only grown since one of my good friends is also super into his music. “Joker Lips” is a great song that I prefer to listen to alone, but “Right Back To It” has become the first song my roommate and I put on when we get in the car.

It’s perfect for driving to class or going to the climbing gym. Some of my other favorites are “Wristwatch” and “She’s Leaving You.” Overall, I am impressed with this version of “dad rock” from you and I am obsessed with MJ Lenderman!

Lucy’s Next Song Choice (In Two Weeks)

“You’re a Mean One, Mr. Grinch” by Thurl Ravenscroft

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About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Lucy’s Perspective 

As we’ve discussed before, my music taste wavered over the years but has always followed a pretty consistent pop path.

Big Thief was kind of the first exception to that. Although I had listened to quite a bit of indie music, this was definitely the furthest step toward true indie in my teens.

From the very beginning beat of “Shoulders,” the funky and fun melancholia of the song is a vibe. Of course, what’s most fun about Big Thief is Adrianne Lenker’s voice. There is something so gripping about it that makes listening more interesting.

I was first introduced to Big Thief in 2022 when my best friend asked me to go to their concert with her later that night.

I decided I was down for checking out a new band at The Wiltern in Los Angeles. To say I was blown away would be an insane understatement. I was enamored the second they walked on stage.

There is a feeling of peace and wisdom that surrounds the band members, something I take away from each and every one of their songs. At that show, I heard some of my all time favorite songs for the very first time. I truly think that is what captured me the most, discovering new music in its most natural state—live.

They didn’t play ‘Shoulders’ that night, so it wasn’t until a year later that I truly listened to this track and fell in love with it. I have been obsessed since that moment. 

The first thing I loved about this song was the music.

The way the drum beat intertwines perfectly with the rest of the instruments was captivating. As I have grown over the past year and a half, I have also learned to appreciate the lyrics so much more than when I first heard it.

And the blood of the man who's killing our mother with his hands
Is in me
It's in me
In my veins

These lyrics have a sort of punch to them, like a hard-to-swallow pill. They hold a resonance that’s beyond anything that I could truly define. That’s a trait of Big Thief’s songwriting and Adrienne Lenker’s solo music that really fascinates me—devastating, gut-punching lines that hold meaning long after the song ends.

Big Thief is one of my all time favorite bands.

Even though they are well known, their music still feels personal to my life experiences. And I love how they support one another through their solo careers. Some of my other favorite songs are “Simulation Swarm,” “Red Moon,” and “Shark Smile (Edit),” as well as Adrienne Lenker’s “No Machine” and “Fool.”

This is a band that I see myself loving for the rest of my life. I wonder what your take is on their kind of funky, folk, indie sounding music and how it resonates with you?

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Steve’s Perspective

I clearly remember when you went to see Big Thief because it was the first time we dropped you off at a show (rather than attending with you).

Even though I was going to punk shows with my friends at that age, the thought off dropping you off at The Wiltern that night filled me with a specific kind of fatherly fear that I wasn’t prepared for. Obviously, everything worked out fine and you clearly have the amazing musical memories to prove it!

I’m pretty sure that night was my introduction to Big Thief too. I remember investigating their music while you were at the show and really liking what I heard. It reminds me of artists like Rilo Kiley and Elliott Smith; or Joni Mitchell filtered through gnarlier Neil Young.

And, of course, it brings to mind the more modern indie folk music you have turned me onto in recent years including boygenius and some of the solo releases by Julien Baker, Phoebe Bridgers and Lucy Dacus.

But “Shoulders“ is grungier and more raw than a lot of that music.

This song has a dark, stripped down Americana feel to it. I think a lot of that has to do with the subject matter of the lyrics, which you already highlighted in your perspective—but I also really like the lines that come before the ones you shared.

They found you in the morning
The blood was on your shoulders
They found you at the corner
Your head was doubled over

Stylistically, that’s veering into modern murder ballad territory. That’s a songwriting style most people might associate with artists like Johnny Cash (“Don’t Take Your Guns To Town”) or Nick Cave (especially his Stones-y take on “Stagger Lee”).

More updated murder ballad examples might include “Goodbye Earl” by The Chicks and “No Body, No Crime” by Taylor Swift. I’ve personally always loved “Country Death Song” by Violent Femmes from their sophomore album, Hallowed Ground.

I also read somewhere that the members of Big Thief grew up listening to Wilco, an influence I can hear in some of their music.

I love that for many reasons, but mostly because Wilco was a part of your childhood as well thanks to your mom and me. So, it’s kind of beautiful to think that you might be connecting with Big Thief on that level as well. (I think the same might be true for MJ Lenderman and Neil Young…but we’ll leave that discussion for next time!)

Regardless of the many influences I hear, “Shoulders” is a great song on its own merits and I will definitely be listening to it a lot more in the future.

Steve’s Next Song Choice (In Two Weeks)

“Joker Lips” by MJ Lenderman

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About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Steve’s Perspective 

This song really caught me by surprise when I first heard it in 1996.

At the time I remember leaning into slightly darker alternative rock and punk such as Jawbreaker’s Dear You, Lagwagon’s Hoss, and Descendents’ Everything Sucks, but this sugary blast of power pop was too good to ignore. I was hooked from the moment I heard that stuttering guitar intro and the snarky opening lyrics.

I was playing in Ridel High back then and deeply involved with Hollywood’s Generation Blue geek rock scene, but looking back I think I had momentarily maxed out on Weezer-inspired alt rock after binging on the Blue Album, Return of the Rentals, Pinkerton and countless other excellent LA/Santa Barbara bands in a similar vein. Which makes it even funnier that an geeky New Jersey band like Fountains Of Wayne so easily lured me back from my brief retreat.

I was living in a truly terrible apartment across the street from LAX (down the street from a sewage plant) at the time. My roommate and I ended up with FoW’s album on repeat for several weeks, at home and in the car during many round trips between El Segundo and Hollywood. Tracks like “Leave The Biker,” “Survival Car” and “Sink To The Bottom” were instant favorites—but I always came back to “Radiation Vibe.”

“Radiation Vibe” is my idea of a perfect ‘90s alternative pop song, right up there with Matthew Sweet’s “I’ve Been Waiting,” Sloan’s “The Rest Of My Life,” and Teenage Fanclub’s “Sparky’s Dream.”

Thirty years later, I’m still thrilled by the simple genius of those “Radiation Vibe” choruses, the first one kicking in with a crucial snare hit followed by irresistible “Baby, Baby Baby” lyrics.

There’s also something uniquely evocative about the phrase “Radiation Vibe,” which—as far as I know—doesn’t really mean anything, but is somehow instantly relatable. The word “vibe” wasn’t as ubiquitous in the ‘90s as it is today, so including it in the song title almost felt like a kitschy nod to the Beach Boys’ “Good Vibrations.”

But what really made me fall for this song (and ultimately led to my becoming a lifelong FoW fan) is the quirky specificity of the lyrics in the second verse:

I went to Pittsburgh
And joined a pro team
Talk about a bad dream
I broke a knee

It probably took a few listens before that subplot fully registered, but it has made me smile ever since. In four lines, the protagonist in this song goes from being a jealous, judgy proto-hipster to having one of the most colorful back stories imaginable—one that’s completely at odds with the somewhat nerdy persona of the band (especially when he follows up by bragging about his ability to “croon” and make girls “swoon”).

Which is a long way of saying that I have always really appreciated FoW’s smart, playful and earnest approach to power pop. 

A few of my other favorites from their catalog include “Red Dragon Tattoo” and “It Must Be Summer” from Utopia Parkway, “Maureen” from Out-of-State Plates, and pretty much all of Welcome Interstate Managers.

I know I played Fountains of Wayne a lot when you were growing up (I’m guessing “Hey Julie” is the one seared into your memory from countless involuntary listens!), but I wonder if your current dive into indie rock has helped you develop any kind of personal appreciation for this song or band?

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Lucy’s Perspective

First of all, I love the pattern of us exchanging our ‘perfect’ songs from various genres. That is such a fun way to show our true personalities. 

I began writing this from a coffee shop where I was “doing homework.” In order to hear the song, I had to play it out loud with my friends. All three of us instantly started nodding along to the beat. I think that is a perfect representation of how this song is meant to be heard.

I know you mentioned Ridel High, but for some reason the beginning of this song (vibe wise) reminded me a lot of  “Silver Shifter” by your other band Tsar. Maybe it’s just the way the music sounds, or maybe just because I associate both bands with you. In all honesty, this song really encapsulates your music taste to me. A little less  hardcore than some of your favorite songs, but still chill and fun. 

Yes, as your daughter, I have definitely heard many Fountains of Wayne songs, most commonly “Stacy’s Mom” or “Hey Julie.”

This is the music I remember you playing in the car on drives to Gramma’s house and probably the reason why I so heavily associate it with you. I don’t remember a ton of specifics about the songs I remember you playing for me as a kid, but I do remember in “Hey Julie” when they say: 

Hey, Julie, look what they're doing to me
Tryna trip me up, tryna wear me down
Julie, I swear it's so hard to bear it
And I'd never make it through without you around
No, I'd never make it through without you around

I’ve always loved that lyric so much because it has the kind of “feel good” and sweet vibe that I crave from a lot of pop songs. And you know I love “Good Vibrations.” The Beach Boys were one of my favorite bands that you played as I grew up, so that nod to them is amazing in my eyes!

My current explorations with indie rock have honestly given me a deeper appreciation for this type of music and would allow me to listen to not only this song, but many other Fountains of Wayne songs on my own.

Although Fountains of Wayne definitely have a unique sound, their music reminds me of more modern songs such as “My Stove’s on Fire” by Robert Lester Folsom and “Black Memories” by The Growlers. The ‘vibe’ and sound of these songs is very similar to “Radiation Vibe” and “Hey Julie”—to me, at least. 

The upbeat feel of the song while still incorporating fun lyrics is exactly what I am looking for in music these days. Although I love to listen to my “depressing” music, I am slowly starting to find myself loving more upbeat songs for different occasions.

All of this to say, great song choice and I approve!

Lucy’s Next Song Choice (In Two Weeks)

“Shoulders” by Big Thief

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About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Lucy’s Perspective 

Maggie Rogers is one of those artists whose name floated around in my peripheral listening for a long time before I actually ever gave her a shot.

Though I can definitely credit one of my good friends for the discovery of this song in particular, the first Maggie Rogers song I heard and loved was her cover of “Iris” (by the Goo Goo Dolls) with Phoebe Bridgers.

That track was a bit of a phenomenon in the Phoebe Bridgers world and was only available on Soundcloud, which made it feel like a relic to find and enjoy. After loving that cover so much, I was more open to Maggie Rogers as a musical artist and my friend took it from there. 

“Love You For A Long Time” is one of those classic-sounding songs that just feels like a good time.

I find myself drawn to it most on bike rides around campus or when I’m put on aux in the car. For me, this song is a beautiful combination of sweet music and lyrics that perfectly coincide with the feeling of the song itself.

And in the mornin' when I'm wakin' up
I swear that you're the first thing that I'm thinkin' of
I feel it in my body, know it in my mind, oh, I
I'm gonna love you for a long time

I really appreciate how sweet and sugary those lyrics are. “Love You For A Long Time” feels like a poem of gratitude to me where Rogers is expressing a kind of love that feels worthwhile and satisfying.

Like Bridgers’ “Kyoto,” this is another song that I think will always feel perfect to me. It has a sort of balance to it that I haven’t found in many songs before. This is a classic Maggie Rogers song and felt well rounded for this week's Song Trader, but some of my other favorites are “Dawns” with Zach Bryan, “The Kill,” and “Horses.” 

Don't slow this down, never let me go
Baby, don't you wanna see how far this thing can go?

It’s so special to me to be able to credit so many of my musical discoveries to the important people in my life.

Although I know you have done a lot of individual song discovery in your life, I wonder how this song resonates with the kind of music you love? I can’t wait to hear your thoughts on this song and this conversation!

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Steve’s Perspective

I always expect to hear this one when you’ve got control of the car stereo.

It’s undeniably great driving music. From the hooky backing vocal melody, to the mid-tempo bass-drum groove, and the laid back guitar strumming and piano. And, of course, Rogers’ vocal performance, delivering the heartfelt lyrics with a sort of contemplative earnestness that only the best singer-songwriters can pull off.

Part of the appeal for me is the timeless sentiment and sound. Is it a ‘70s singer-songwriter hit that I somehow missed? Easy to imagine this song being everywhere back then. A one hit wonder from the Lilith Fair late ‘90s? I could maybe picture Jewel or Lisa Loeb singing it. An early 2000s cover of a Stevie Nicks deep cut from the early ‘80s? I’d believe it.

A lot of that went through my head the first few times you played it for me. I couldn’t quite figure out what it reminded me of, but it definitely tickled some pleasant musical memories in my brain. It’s not a perfect comparison, but I finally decided it was the general feel of mid-career Talking Heads.

These days I just appreciate it as a pretty perfect song in its own right.

And I totally agree with you about the poetic lyrics, which—as I mentioned above—are significantly elevated by Roger’s vocal delivery. In particular, I love how the dynamics shift from the verses into the pre-chorus and chorus.

In terms of specific lyrics that jump out at me, I think these lines resonate most:

Oh, I never knew it, yeah, you took me by surprise
While I was gettin' lost so deep inside your diamond eyes
So many things that I still wanna say
And if devotion is a river, then I'm floatin' away

And I really appreciate the layers of meaning for “love” that she explores here. On the surface, this comes across as the kind of romantic missive that is so common in Adult Contemporary pop music, but Rogers has often said that it’s just as much about the deep relationships she has formed with her band and her fans as anything else.

Probably my favorite thing about how much you enjoy this track is that it reminds me of the kind of music your mom has always loved.

It’s a beautiful thing when I hear her music tastes quietly handed down to you and your sister. You and I might share a musical bond that we explore in this series, but I never want to overlook how much you and your mom connect through music as well.

I guess we’re just a music-loving family, and I think that’s fantastic. Thanks for picking another great track.

Steve’s Next Song Choice (In Two Weeks)

“Radiation Vibe” by Fountains of Wayne

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About X/Z Song Trader: Steve is a music journalist, author and musician. Lucy is a diehard music fan and college student. They have always enjoyed a father/daughter bond over music. Each week one of them picks a song and they both share their perspectives. These are casual conversations based on musical connections. Opinions are their own. Keeping it positive.

Check out the whole X/Z Song Trader series.

Steve’s Perspective 

Like many punk fans my age, I was first introduced to the genre through in-your-face early ‘80s artists like Dead Kennedys, Black Flag and DOA.

I still love a lot of those bands and consider them fundamental to my tastes, but I pretty quickly started looking for similar music beyond the strict confines of hardcore. In particular, the intensity of that genre made me want to explore ‘70s punk bands.

That’s how discovered New York bands like Ramones, New York Dolls and Dead Boys (by way of Cleveland); Los Angeles bands like X, Germs and Gun Club (and The Go-Go’s, although I probably heard them on the radio first; same with Blondie from New York); and London bands like Sex Pistols, The Clash and The Damned. Much as I liked the angry energy of punk rock, my ear was always drawn to pop hooks—and many of the bands above delivered the perfect combination of all those elements.

That music, in turn, got me thinking about ‘60s “classic rockers” like The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Who and The Kinks differently—and that eventually led to discovering all-time favorite bands like Velvet Underground, David Bowie, Big Star and The Replacements. So, in a roundabout way, getting into hardcore punk in my early teens is what turned me into a lifelong guitar pop fan. (I think my early fascination with hard rock and heavy metal helped too.)

Of all the pop-oriented punk bands I first discovered during those formative years, Generation X has always been a favorite.

I remember occasionally riding my bike several miles from your grandma’s house to a cool record store by the beach on summer afternoons. The place was staffed by a handful of unbearably cool, older punks who would casually let you know if they approved of the albums you selected. The memory of holding up Generation X’s self-titled debut album to the guy wiping down used vinyl behind the counter and getting a thumbs up in return is still seared into my brain. 

And you know what? He was totally right! It’s a truly amazing collection of songs featuring standout tracks like “Day by Day,” “One Hundred Punks,” and the moody punk ballad “Kiss Me Deadly.” Lead singer Billy Idol was already a solo artist and MTV star by this time, so I’m sure that helped drive my interest in Generation X. Have I mentioned that I’ve always loved guitar-oriented pop music?!

When it comes to blending snarling punk energy with world-class British Invasion hooks, I can’t think of a better example than “Ready Steady Go.”

For starters, the song is named for the mid-‘60s British TV show that featured performances by most of the coolest bands of the era (many of them name-checked in the lyrics). This track is both a love letter to the musicians that a young Billy Idol would have seen performing, as well as the show’s presenter (aka “host”), “Queen of the Mods,” Cathy McGowan:

I'm not in love with television
I'm not in love with the radio
I'm not in love with The Kings Road, oh-ho-ho
Because I'm in love with Cathy McGow-wow-wow-wow-owan

Singing about a crush? Check. Making pop culture references? Check. Snarling vocals, killer guitar and great drumming? Check, check and check! It still sounds as exciting to me today as it did the first time I dropped a needle on it in the early ‘80s.

I know I’ve joked with you in the past about choosing punk songs for this series, but I honestly think that “Ready Steady Go” is a pretty gentle intro to the genre. I know you never really loved punk, and I honestly can’t remember if I ever played this one for you, so I’d love to hear your thoughts on Generation X.

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Lucy’s Perspective

Although I don’t consider myself to be ‘into’ punk music, I have definitely started branching out in that direction since coming to college.

I have a few really good friends who love punk music. They have introduced me to a brief selection of songs by bands like Black Flag and The Clash.

I think that since the biggest influences on my music tastes (Taylor Swift, Phoebe Bridgers, etc.) are so heavily based in the lyrics, the actual music (in this case, an intense sort) was lost on me for a lot of my life. But this song seems like a positive transition into punk music since its lyrics also hold resonance. 

One thing I appreciated a lot about this song was the interesting instrumentation throughout.

I like when a song doesn’t follow a stagnant pattern and adds a little excitement to the various instruments. In my opinion this song does a pretty great job of keeping the listener interested through both lyrics and music. 

I really love the visual you painted from me both because it is hilarious and also because it shows how much these songs impacted the way that you grew up and continued to view music for the rest of your life. I think when you find a song or an artist to carry with you for such a long period of time, it continues to be the most influential music you might ever hear.

I have definitely found that in some my own favorite songs.

But, like you said, it took time and effort to get to the point where I could look at the music I liked and find a genuine pattern. I switched through genres and sounds within those genres until I found myself between lyrics and beats.

I love that this song is a reminder of you doing the exact same thing. Though I don’t see myself loving punk in the near future, there are definitely songs out there, like “Ready Steady Go,” that I might find myself listening to and enjoying. This was a perfect way to segue into your more hardcore tastes.

Lucy’s Next Song Choice (In Two Weeks)

“Love You For A Long Time” by Maggie Rogers

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